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imported_blacksheep1208

07-12-2010, 09:16 PM

My simple question is this. How is it that personellists get away with constantly losing paperwork? I am trying to PCS and turned in documents a month ago. Apparently everything I turned in was lost. When attempting to contact them by the email alias they desire, I get no answers. I would visit them in person but their hours aren't conducive to that since I work at a site that is away from the base I am stationed on and they are generally confrontational when dealt with in person. Finally my chief went in there and they told him I had turned nothing in aside from my assignment rip and that is why I didn't gotten my orders yet. I'm not the only one this is happening to here either. The extreme lack of support from them is rank blind. We've had SSgt's, MSgt's, and SMSgt's all have issues with these guys. But I really want to know, how can people be so blatantly incompetant and nothing is done to them? When they leave they will have 5's on their EPR's and get their end of tour awards. To be honest it makes me sick.


2G071

07-12-2010, 11:07 PM

I can sympathize. Back in 2001, I put it a humanitarian package in for a reassignment to San Antonio. Two weeks later I had heard nothing so I went back and was told it must have been lost so I recreated it to include the commander’s signature. About a week and a half later I went to check on it and an Airman found it (and my original) in the bottom of her SSgt’s in-box (who had just started 3 weeks leave) so I told her to give it back to me. I was so upset, I walked directly to my commander’s office and told his secretary I needed to see him immediately (trust me - that was the only time in my career I ever pulled that stunt). Our sq. Chief overheard me and asked me what the problem was. I told him and he walked me back to MPF to see their Chief who told us both “Yeah, this happens all the time…” Wanting to keep my (then) new TSgt stripes, I kept my mouth shut. My Chief then asked me to go back to my office. Don’t know what he said to her but I had my orders in hand 8 days later.

Same deal with Finance - every time I PCS’d I made sure I had plenty of cash on hand as I got the inevitable “no pay due” notices even without taking advanced pay. My favorite Finance story: we had an AB PCS from tech school and got a “no pay” notice on a Friday so he didn’t come into work Monday because “If I’m not going to get paid, I’m not coming to work!”. When he later got a off-duty job off base, I teased him that if they didn't pay him there, he could actually get away with not showing up! Still makes me smile thinking about it…


imnohero

07-13-2010, 12:02 AM

I guess I got lucky my whole career, I didn't have a problem with personnel like these. Sometimes it took longer than I liked for things to get processed but not months. Same for finance, I think I had one voucher my whole career that I had to go check on. Speaking for myself, I like the online everything...it means every action I take gets time stamped by a computer somewhere, no disputing whether I turned in something or sent an email.


VFFSSGT

07-13-2010, 01:37 AM

The most recent example I have is a code against me for a projected formal training course from several years ago still against me. Before that, the most significant was my SGLI form getting lost 2 times; the second submission was solely b/c the first one got lost.

The most common problem I have seen and dealt with is CRO paperwork getting lost once submitted. Every supervisor I have had, had to submit CRO paperwork more than once and often several times. The times I have submitted it, it also took more than one time. I have also seen this with multiple other supervisors.

How do they get away with it?

The first answer is EPR inflation and in reality no one is really being rated on true job performance.

The second is the military's answer to practically everything is not to figure out the source of the problem, but to just fix the problem - aka just resubmit for the 468th time because you failed to follow-up 6,289 times to make sure someone else was doing their job; it's always your fault (sarcasm intended). Funny though, considering when it comes to safety the AF wants several pages of essays on what was done to prevent recurrence.

In the case of my SGLI forms...the second time I submitted my most recent changes, I just happened to be served by the section NCOIC. I told her during the process, that my last one was lost and it was the only reason I was there today. She seriously seemed shocked that my paperwork was lost. And then, it gets lost for the second time. Granted it could have happened locally, in the mail, or at AFPC where they scan everything in the system now.

And its sad to say, but some people are just as bad if not worst in "losing" emails because their management skills are sub-par and the AF does not have a CBT for managing information, more specifically emails. This is an AFI that gives instructions about limiting emails, especially extra-curricular emails, but you try telling that to the Booster Club, Airmen's Council, 5/6, Top 3, Diamond's Council, Chief's Whatever, the Shirt himself, the Chief himself, the Commander, the PT Nazi's, AADD, AF Safety, Wing Safety, Group Safety, Squadron Safety, and Flight Safety. DISCLOSURE: I am confident this is not an all inclusive list and it is highly likely I left several organizations off.

Back to the point...At the same time, their is no real good cost-effective way to physically track actual paperwork; this is why email is good even when someone "loses" it you still have a record on your end who it was sent too so the problem can at least half-way be addressed, but again it often goes back to being your fault because you did not follow-up 29,537 times.


imported_Shove_your_stupid_meeting

07-13-2010, 02:26 AM

Eh, I think there is a certain level of incompetence across the board in the AF these days, not just at the FSS or the CPTS.


Stuntman

07-13-2010, 02:32 AM

Eh, I think there is a certain level of incompetence across the board in the AF these days, not just at the FSS or the CPTS.

Yep. So much for them recruiting 'technical experts.'


2430 MHz

07-13-2010, 04:09 AM

Perhaps if they came out with a simple user friendly interface on the computer, then the young airmen wouldn't have a problem "losing" so much stuff.

They should also offer an emailed receipt of whatever you turned in and evidence that you were there that day


AFCommunicator

07-13-2010, 05:12 AM

Eh, I think there is a certain level of incompetence across the board in the AF these days, not just at the FSS or the CPTS.

I don't think it is that. I think that it is a lack of training. Before anyone jumps and says "what? They are closed early twice a week for 'training'..." the problem lies in what they train on, not the fact that they do not do training. Now, I cannot say what they do behind their closed doors when they are closed for training, but it occurs to me that when the small stuff cannot be done right, you should train more on said "small stuff".

What cranks my tractor about MFP are the times I walked in there and got the holier then thou "we don't do that" answer. Example. I returned from a deployment and after my voucher cleared, I took that, my LOE and my dec to MPF to have my STRD adjusted for the number of days I was deployed. The SSgt that assisted me told me that my UDM did that, not them. I said "well, since the UDM works in the flight I run, I can tell you they don't, you do". To which, the reply was "no, they should be doing it". Not to argue, I left and went back to the office.

I went to the AFPC web site, pulled down the MFPM that tells MFP that yes, they in fact do this and even includes the instruction HOW to do it WITH EXAMPLES. So I highlight the instructions, go back to MPF walk in (even though they were closed for lunch), went up to the SSgt and simply said "here is the MPFM that tells you that yes, you do this. It has instructions on how to update MILPDS to accomplish this. You WILL put your sandwich down and do this now; if you have probelm that, I suggest you call your section chief or you Chief, right now." It was done right then, and right there. The young lady thanked me for providing her the information on how to do this update.

What irked me was how quickly the answer was 'no' and I had to go out of my way to provide proof to "the expert" on what their job entails.


imported_blacksheep1208

07-13-2010, 06:29 AM

I don't think it is that. I think that it is a lack of training.

I cut most of the quote short to save space. All I can say is that when it comes to MPF, I don't think it's a lack of training. It's a lack of effort. How hard is it to take papers that are handed to you and place them into a folder that you created? It's not like the papers don't have my name on them. It's not like they don't have my SSN on them. Either they are legitimately stupid people or there has to be some malice involved. Now I understand no one is perfect and we all make mistakes. But is it really just a simple mistake anymore when this happens to multiple people. These are the people that should be booted out of the Air Force. If you can't handle something as simple as filing papers and processing orders, which is there job by the way, then you really don't deserve a pay check on the 1st and 15th of the month.


ScarletO'H

07-13-2010, 07:51 AM

You need to make copies of everything before you turn it in. When you turn it in to someone get the name of the person that you give it to and write down the day and time that you gave it to them.


imported_blacksheep1208

07-13-2010, 08:52 AM

You need to make copies of everything before you turn it in. When you turn it in to someone get the name of the person that you give it to and write down the day and time that you gave it to them.

Here's the thing though, I can do all of that and it still doesn't matter. If they lose everything it still delays orders being created. So me having copies and submitting copy after copy does no good unless the person on the receiving end (of which where I am stationed there are only two people who pretend they have never seen you before) handles them properly. If you hand it in, in person, they lose it. If you email it, they don't open the email, then claim they have 10 duty days from the day you went in and called them out on it and had them open the email in question to act. I just really want to know why can't they do their job proficiently. Why is it if you work in maintenance, security forces, or intel (I'm sure there are other career fields) you are held accountable for mistakes? Why is it always our fault and just chalked up to well that's MPF..it happens.


Stuntman

07-13-2010, 09:35 AM

Why is it always our fault and just chalked up to well that's MPF..it happens.

Don't forget finance. They're even worse. They affect your pay, and you get in trouble for it.


imported_Shove_your_stupid_meeting

07-13-2010, 01:28 PM

I don't think it is that. I think that it is a lack of training.

We'll have to agree to disagree there. I get way too many "I don't knows" and "not my problems" across base to single out one office or shop. Now I do agree that training is an issue, but once again, I see it all over the place.


sweep_the_leg

07-13-2010, 02:30 PM

You need to make copies of everything before you turn it in.

When out-processing my last base MPF personnel recommended me to do that. That's like saying, "We don't want it to happen, but it does, and when it does we don't do much to rectify the problem. Just be prepared." They even let me use their copier!


Salty Old Dog

07-13-2010, 04:11 PM

This is why I learned, years ago, to NEVER give anyone your only copy of any paperwork! At the very least, scan an electronic document (PDF) of it, for your own records!!

My own personal belief as to why this happens all the time, everywhere you go, is because they actually find the most clueless turds imaginable to do this sort of work.

When I worked in Guam (civil service), and transferred here under the priority placement program, it took the civilian personnel "specialists" no less than TEN times to get the pay codes correct on my orders! I'd go to housing to get my packout scheduled, have to run back to civilian personnel. Go to turn in my vehicle for shipment.....back to civilian personnel. Literally EVERY ONE of the pay codes on my orders was wrong!!

Oh, and to add to the suckiness of the situation, when you're transferring under PPP to your new job, you only have 45 calendar days (from overseas, or 30 days in CONUS) to report to your new location. Well, gosh, isn't that special, especially when you spend the first 2 weeks of the time going back to the personnel office in order to get them to fix their screwups??


smarg

07-13-2010, 08:10 PM

My simple question is this. How is it that personellists get away with constantly losing paperwork? I am trying to PCS and turned in documents a month ago. Apparently everything I turned in was lost. When attempting to contact them by the email alias they desire, I get no answers. I would visit them in person but their hours aren't conducive to that since I work at a site that is away from the base I am stationed on and they are generally confrontational when dealt with in person. Finally my chief went in there and they told him I had turned nothing in aside from my assignment rip and that is why I didn't gotten my orders yet. I'm not the only one this is happening to here either. The extreme lack of support from them is rank blind. We've had SSgt's, MSgt's, and SMSgt's all have issues with these guys. But I really want to know, how can people be so blatantly incompetant and nothing is done to them? When they leave they will have 5's on their EPR's and get their end of tour awards. To be honest it makes me sick.

Welcome to the world of GenNext'ers and Millenials, raised with rotten value sets, as they poise to take over the Air Force.

God help us all.


PMS-O

07-13-2010, 09:10 PM

I'm one of them. It is always easy to stand on the outside and indict an entire demographic of people for what are really isolated incidents when you look at the total picture. But, I will concede that the AF is setting its Force Support troops (personnel, services and manpower) for failure. They develop this grand concept of the FSS, they cut the officer and enlisted force big time and continue to do so, they transform our processes (cutting bodies first and developing the "new" state or "to be" processes after the cuts, and then we find out the processes weren't well thought out or just plain don't work. And, oh by the way they increase deployments at the same time.

I said all that to say this. We were told you do not do certain things any more. We are not trained or manned to do those things. So, yes, you will hear "We don't do that." more and more. As well, due to deployments some MPF/MPSs are down in manning by 30-50% at any given time; with a revolving door of deployers and returnees. I'm not saying we are special, or unique, I'm just saying.

So, before you all get on your soap boxes about the "soft" career fields and how badly they suck....understand the circumstances they exist and live under. It is very easy to criticize those folks/functions that everyone utilizes or have experienced (i.e. Services--everyone has stayed at hotels and other lodging facilities and can bitch about the current one they are in because once upon a time they stayed in one that was better). That's just too easy.

The AF has transitioned/manned itself and embraced a culture of "We are All __________"....(.fill in the blank: personnelist, finance, etc). Don't blame the other Airmen; it is how we live, are trained, are raised and manned for today's AF.


imported_blacksheep1208

07-13-2010, 09:33 PM

I'm one of them. It is always easy to stand on the outside and indict an entire demographic of people for what are really isolated incidents when you look at the total picture. But, I will concede that the AF is setting its Force Support troops (personnel, services and manpower) for failure. They develop this grand concept of the FSS, they cut the officer and enlisted force big time and continue to do so, they transform our processes (cutting bodies first and developing the "new" state or "to be" processes after the cuts, and then we find out the processes weren't well thought out or just plain don't work. And, oh by the way they increase deployments at the same time.

I said all that to say this. We were told you do not do certain things any more. We are not trained or manned to do those things. So, yes, you will hear "We don't do that." more and more. As well, due to deployments some MPF/MPSs are down in manning by 30-50% at any given time; with a revolving door of deployers and returnees. I'm not saying we are special, or unique, I'm just saying.

So, before you all get on your soap boxes about the "soft" career fields and how badly they suck....understand the circumstances they exist and live under. It is very easy to criticize those folks/functions that everyone utilizes or have experienced (i.e. Services--everyone has stayed at hotels and other lodging facilities and can bitch about the current one they are in because once upon a time they stayed in one that was better). That's just too easy.

The AF has transitioned/manned itself and embraced a culture of "We are All __________"....(.fill in the blank: personnelist, finance, etc). Don't blame the other Airmen; it is how we live, are trained, are raised and manned for today's AF.

Where do all the lost papers go? Please explain to me where all the papers that I, and many other people, have turned in with our names, ranks, and SSN's have gone? What about assignment rips that dissapear? Doesn't anyone there notice and say to themself, "Hey, this looks like an assignment rip, this might be important." You can blame manning all you want, and I will get up on my soapbox. I've PCS'd three times in the past 7 years. Each time there is some sort of pain in the ass I have deal with because MPF doesn't do their job properly. To me accepting documents required for PCS orders and then producing said PCS orders are part of their job. Can you explain to me why it's so hard to do? But like I said, please tell me, where do all the papers we turn in that get "lost" go?


imported_BRAVO10000

07-13-2010, 10:02 PM

I'm one of them. It is always easy to stand on the outside and indict an entire demographic of people for what are really isolated incidents when you look at the total picture. But, I will concede that the AF is setting its Force Support troops (personnel, services and manpower) for failure. They develop this grand concept of the FSS, they cut the officer and enlisted force big time and continue to do so, they transform our processes (cutting bodies first and developing the "new" state or "to be" processes after the cuts, and then we find out the processes weren't well thought out or just plain don't work. And, oh by the way they increase deployments at the same time.

I said all that to say this. We were told you do not do certain things any more. We are not trained or manned to do those things. So, yes, you will hear "We don't do that." more and more. As well, due to deployments some MPF/MPSs are down in manning by 30-50% at any given time; with a revolving door of deployers and returnees. I'm not saying we are special, or unique, I'm just saying.

So, before you all get on your soap boxes about the "soft" career fields and how badly they suck....understand the circumstances they exist and live under. It is very easy to criticize those folks/functions that everyone utilizes or have experienced (i.e. Services--everyone has stayed at hotels and other lodging facilities and can bitch about the current one they are in because once upon a time they stayed in one that was better). That's just too easy.

The AF has transitioned/manned itself and embraced a culture of "We are All __________"....(.fill in the blank: personnelist, finance, etc). Don't blame the other Airmen; it is how we live, are trained, are raised and manned for today's AF.

Not flaming you here, but I would prefer it came off that way than to patronize you.

I do have to say that it isn 't as isolated as you might think. It has become common. With your position understood, that is not an excuse that I can use for MY customers when they have needs. I have had the door closed in my face at the MPF because it was 1500 on the nose on a Friday (after waiting an hour and 15 minutes) when I had a Tuesday suspense...with Monday being a holiday. I've struggled to get simple questions answered for my guys that were PCSing back stateside, because everyone has the same phone extention listed, and no one answers it.

I think that it might be more common than you realize - but too many mid-level NCOs answer "we don't do that" when they SHOULD be picking up a phone and contacting the people that do. A simple guide to let people know who should be doing what would be useful. If there's a trend, why can they not get proactive and fix it? Bad checklists? Intervene! Someone has to take the reins or this will stay this way.

This past Monday, our passport office in the local MPF had my wife go to correct her passport application....FOUR different times. Of course, as she has the freedom to speak candidly, she exercised the same on the last stop. As difficult as it was to watch the train wreck, she was given a different process on each of the first three visits, and the third was a scolding "no, no, no, this is ALL wrong!" retort (and my wife is NOT military). Think anyone took the time to discern between the process between a tourist passport and a no-fee renewal on a checklist? No. They just flippantly sent her away, knowing that she'd be waiting ANOTHER hour when she came back. Sorry, but in most of our worlds, people would get fired for that. These folks sat, openly socializing while people sat and waited in plain view...

We run all over the place chasing our tails and suffer career impacts from bad direction and advice. This would be so much more palatable if folks in those functions would at least pretend to care. Your response, being frank, smacks of that same "Hey, it isn't our process" indifference that we meet when trying to get things done at the MPF or finance. It's kind of hard to swallow your manning issues when we are dealing with the same...and NOT opening at 0900 and closing at 1500. The rest of us work 12s if we have to.


Forsaken Wombat

07-13-2010, 10:52 PM

Not flaming you here, but I would prefer it came off that way than to patronize you.

I do have to say that it isn 't as isolated as you might think. It has become common. With your position understood, that is not an excuse that I can use for MY customers when they have needs. I have had the door closed in my face at the MPF because it was 1500 on the nose on a Friday (after waiting an hour and 15 minutes) when I had a Tuesday suspense...with Monday being a holiday. I've struggled to get simple questions answered for my guys that were PCSing back stateside, because everyone has the same phone extention listed, and no one answers it.......continued

Excellent!! You said everything (and more) that I wished to say. There seems to be a growing level of "Accepted Incompetence" in these areas of the Air Force (MPF, Finance, etc).


VFFSSGT

07-14-2010, 01:05 AM

I'm one of them. It is always easy to stand on the outside and indict an entire demographic of people for what are really isolated incidents when you look at the total picture. But, I will concede that the AF is setting its Force Support troops (personnel, services and manpower) for failure. They develop this grand concept of the FSS, they cut the officer and enlisted force big time and continue to do so, they transform our processes (cutting bodies first and developing the "new" state or "to be" processes after the cuts, and then we find out the processes weren't well thought out or just plain don't work. And, oh by the way they increase deployments at the same time.

I said all that to say this. We were told you do not do certain things any more. We are not trained or manned to do those things. So, yes, you will hear "We don't do that." more and more. As well, due to deployments some MPF/MPSs are down in manning by 30-50% at any given time; with a revolving door of deployers and returnees. I'm not saying we are special, or unique, I'm just saying.

So, before you all get on your soap boxes about the "soft" career fields and how badly they suck....understand the circumstances they exist and live under. It is very easy to criticize those folks/functions that everyone utilizes or have experienced (i.e. Services--everyone has stayed at hotels and other lodging facilities and can bitch about the current one they are in because once upon a time they stayed in one that was better). That's just too easy.

The AF has transitioned/manned itself and embraced a culture of "We are All __________"....(.fill in the blank: personnelist, finance, etc). Don't blame the other Airmen; it is how we live, are trained, are raised and manned for today's AF.

Because the rest of the AF doesn't have decreased manning, increased deployments, and are undermanned to begin with... You are the only one that deals with these problems, so you are right, we should cut you guys some slack. After all it's not like you all do not do anything all that important. Who cares about careers, re-enlistments, SGLI forms, retirements, assignments, RNLTD's, etc? All of that useless stuff is over-rated. :mad2

One thing in common with all MPF's... They lose paperwork and they are always :closed_2 for training. Rarely anyone else in the AF closes for training, if anyone else does for that matter. I wish I could close Airfields down at my leisure to train or even just maintain comm equipment that is precisely landing airplanes. BUT NO! I can't, which means we have to get our training and maintenance in at sometime the Airfield is down; often times 0300 or 0400 in the morning and still work a full day. Does the MPF even know this time exists?

If you think you have it so bad, maybe you should try flight line or airfield comm maintenance where people can lose stripes and/or go to jail over lost paperwork and/or bad maintenance resulting in an aircraft incident or accident. Ask a flight line maintainer what happens if they lose a simple screwdriver that is easily replaceable. :rant

Maybe you and your peers should stop making and accepting poor excuses to why your sections are sub-par and figure out HOW TO BETTER IMPROVE your processes without losing mass amounts of paperwork and make your sections more efficient. Every time I visit the MPF and sit and wait (9 times of of 10, over an hour) I sit there and watch you all work and "assist" people. I always see so many ways you all could do things better...its crazy. The biggest one I always see, is the sheer amount of bs'ing going on with co-workers WHILE trying to assist a customer; BS at 1631 - not in my face wasting my time and yours. Another one is, I have repeatedly heard questions unanswerable by MPF staff that I could answer and the staff most certainly should be able to.

There are two tools you and your peers need to better learn your job:
1. Reading
2. http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/


mr smap beeve

07-14-2010, 01:32 AM

I'm one of them. It is always easy to stand on the outside and indict an entire demographic of people for what are really isolated incidents when you look at the total picture. But, I will concede that the AF is setting its Force Support troops (personnel, services and manpower) for failure. They develop this grand concept of the FSS, they cut the officer and enlisted force big time and continue to do so, they transform our processes (cutting bodies first and developing the "new" state or "to be" processes after the cuts, and then we find out the processes weren't well thought out or just plain don't work. And, oh by the way they increase deployments at the same time.

I said all that to say this. We were told you do not do certain things any more. We are not trained or manned to do those things. So, yes, you will hear "We don't do that." more and more. As well, due to deployments some MPF/MPSs are down in manning by 30-50% at any given time; with a revolving door of deployers and returnees. I'm not saying we are special, or unique, I'm just saying.

So, before you all get on your soap boxes about the "soft" career fields and how badly they suck....understand the circumstances they exist and live under. It is very easy to criticize those folks/functions that everyone utilizes or have experienced (i.e. Services--everyone has stayed at hotels and other lodging facilities and can bitch about the current one they are in because once upon a time they stayed in one that was better). That's just too easy.

The AF has transitioned/manned itself and embraced a culture of "We are All __________"....(.fill in the blank: personnelist, finance, etc). Don't blame the other Airmen; it is how we live, are trained, are raised and manned for today's AF.

You are correct with what you say about the downsizing of the 3S0X1 career field but these people are correct with what they say while "standing on those soap boxes." Downsizing and deployments is not an excuse for how the FSS provides mediocre work. How do I know? After working in 2 MPFs and a CSS I'm about to be a 1W0X1 after doing 5.5 years as a 3S0X1 and I agree with everybody else is saying. Everyday I went to work and had to do that crap I wanted to stab my eyes out with the level of incompetence and sheer ignorance of people, lack of a decent work ethic, and because I felt that I was smarter than everybody else.

I don't know you but 95% of 3S0X1s that I knew were about as smart as a mongoloid and for all of you who are wondering..................yes it is where majority of the lazy and mediocre go because they want to do a 0730 - 1630 M-F. Leadership in the FSS is a freaking joke as well. Officers and SNCOs who cup the balls of every person that walks because instead of having balls and standing up against someone who is wrong they would rather hold their hand doesn't help the FSS image either.

The FSS breeds and promotes incompetence, hence the reason why I wasn't kicking and screaming when I showed on the force crosstraining list. Biased......yes but like I said before I agree with the statements these people give because I saw the stuff everybody is discussing happen in front of me all the time from people in other sections and nobody was ever disciplined or gave a shit. I'm glad that I'm not apart of that world anymore.


Stuntman

07-14-2010, 01:37 AM

You are correct with what you say about the downsizing of the 3S0X1 career field but these people are correct with what they say while "standing on those soap boxes." Downsizing and deployments is not an excuse for how the FSS provides mediocre work. How do I know? After working in 2 MPFs and a CSS I'm about to be a 1W0X1 after doing 5.5 years as a 3S0X1 and I agree with everybody else is saying. Everyday I went to work and had to do that crap I wanted to stab my eyes out with the level of incompetence and sheer ignorance of people, lack of a decent work ethic, and because I felt that I was smarter than everybody else.

I don't know you but 95% of 3S0X1s that I knew were about as smart as a mongoloid and for all of you who are wondering..................yes it is where majority of the lazy and mediocre go because they want to do a 0730 - 1630 M-F. Leadership in the FSS is a freaking joke as well. Officers and SNCOs who cup the balls of every person that walks because instead of having balls and standing up against someone who is wrong they would rather hold their hand doesn't help the FSS image either.

The FSS breeds and promotes incompetence, hence the reason why I wasn't kicking and screaming when I showed on the force crosstraining list. Biased......yes but like I said before I agree with the statements these people give because I saw the stuff everybody is discussing happen in front of me all the time from people in other sections and nobody was ever disciplined or gave a shit. I'm glad that I'm not apart of that world anymore.

But I thought the air force recruited "technical experts?"


mr smap beeve

07-14-2010, 01:40 AM

But I thought the air force recruited "technical experts?"

Then I think your recruiter lied to you :becky

There are very few technical experts in the FSS world, those that are are smart enough to leave it for better things!


imported_Shove_your_stupid_meeting

07-14-2010, 01:57 AM

I'm one of them.

Heh heh. Then you should know, there's no winning in this discussion. It doesn't matter how exceptional you or your office might be, or how many customers may flat out lie, "forget" half the story, screw up on their own, etc., it's all your fault, and it always will be all of your fault. You are the enemy, and the rest of the Air Force does not have to be held accountable in these instances, because any problem of theirs that crosses into your world, is your fault.

Seriously though, I've worked with a bunch of you guys over the years, and I can sympathize with where you're coming from. I know it's not all of you that struggle with the most simplistic of tasks, and I know it's not just FSS and Finance that come up short. I lost count of how many maintainers and cops I've encountered that didn't even seem to know how to tie their shoes, much less articulate a need. But hey, they're the real Air Force, so that's different. They're irreplaceable, never mind that there's contracted guys taking their jobs too.

I think folks unfortunately do have to accept that processes are broken, and they better be intelligent enough to do everything they can to take care of themselves the best they can (i.e. make copies of everything and follow-up frequently), unless they want to pay for it in the end. Similarly, I think folks in your world have to realize that even if they're competent, proficient, and they put in more hours than 99% of their customers, whom will repeatedly visit them and spend hours on end waiting for their help (assuming the stories are true), they still suck at life because they're part of the evil FSS. The FSS set on screwing with people, just because they can.

Oh well. I ain't mad at ya'. Although I must admit, will call, e-mail, and visit you frequently until you take care of whatever I ask you to. Call me a worrier. :-D


Stuntman

07-14-2010, 02:27 AM

Then I think your recruiter lied to you :becky

There are very few technical experts in the FSS world, those that are are smart enough to leave it for better things!

My recruiter didn't say that. The people on this board did when they were bitching about the new PT requirements. I can think of hundreds of jobs in the chair force that you needn't be 'technical' nor an 'expert' in. So....if they aren't 'technical experts' and they aren't meant to be 'PT gods'.....what exactly DO they do?


alaskaresident

07-14-2010, 04:02 AM

I just recently PCS'd from Alaska back to the Lower 48. I wont even get started on the crap I went through to get a Passport for my husband and son. There is not enough time in the day for that vent.

But as usual finance dropped the ball. I did a full DITY more and as a side note I will never do one again. I turned in my paperwork on 18 June so that I can get the rest of my money. Finance told me it would take about 7 days and I would see the money in my account. Sounds reasonable to me. Two weeks go by and nothing. The 4th of July holiday comes and goes with nothing. The Tuesday after the holiday I march my butt to finance and am told to come back because the computers are down. Ok makes since because everything is done by computers now and the world would cease to function without them. Our computers are down at work too so I know it is not a bullsh*t statement. The computers are down for the next 3 days. I go back this last Friday and they look into the computer monitor and then excuse themselves and go into the back. After about 10 more minutes of waiting little A1C Someone comes back and tells me they found my paperwork and because the computers were down the past 3 days they weren't able to send it out. She assures me it will get taken care of today.

I was livid. My papers should have been sent out 2.5 weeks ago, the computers being down should never had effected me because I should have already had my money. Now granted I do not need this money to survive I have plenty for that but it would be nice to drop off paperwork and have it go through right the first time.


imported_blacksheep1208

07-14-2010, 09:37 AM

I think a lot of this comes down to laziness. They are too lazy to do what they need to do. They put it off until you have to push them to do it or until the papers you turned in get lost. But when you go in there and ask why it's not done yet, you piss them off, making them less likely to put out any effort. It's absolutely amazing anything gets done.


BigBaze

07-14-2010, 01:49 PM

The Air Force could give two craps about technical expertise, if they did they would be holding these incompetent people accountable. So long as airmen can run fast and look good in their blues, and help plant flowers on base before an inspection (like we just did) then commanders are quite happy. So long as the little squares are filled on their accountability slides (for whatever they have decided to get 100% accountability on that week; perhaps a dry set of underwear or maybe making sure everyone on base has something that the clothing store DOESN'T have in stock at the time) , government cards are paid off on time and you are making them look good, all is in order in a CC's world. Whatever happens behind the scenes is left for the junior NCO's to deal with, but hey the Air Force has taken our power away bit by bit, we are not even competent enough to PT test someone or write paperwork without proper justification to the squadron E9 for the fear of hurting someone's precious feelings. Oh I miss the old days I really don't know we ever accomplished the mission without reflective belts, PT and an airman's creed before.


alaskaresident

07-14-2010, 02:31 PM

It's funny you mentioned the Airmen's Creed. While trying to inprocess at MPF I was one of 5 people waiting to be helped. There was two A1C's and a SSgt in the office helping us customers. While I was waiting a TSgt popped her head in and told one of the A1C's that they had to report to the chiefs office and recite the Airmen's Creed. Seriously you are going to pull her out of the office when there are customers trying to get business done to go say the Airmen's Creed. Couldn't that have waiting until their daily "training" period. I was just a little ticked off about that.


Shrike

07-14-2010, 04:20 PM

It's funny you mentioned the Airmen's Creed. While trying to inprocess at MPF I was one of 5 people waiting to be helped. There was two A1C's and a SSgt in the office helping us customers. While I was waiting a TSgt popped her head in and told one of the A1C's that they had to report to the chiefs office and recite the Airmen's Creed. Seriously you are going to pull her out of the office when there are customers trying to get business done to go say the Airmen's Creed. Couldn't that have waiting until their daily "training" period. I was just a little ticked off about that.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.


mr smap beeve

07-14-2010, 04:57 PM

My recruiter didn't say that. The people on this board did when they were bitching about the new PT requirements. I can think of hundreds of jobs in the chair force that you needn't be 'technical' nor an 'expert' in. So....if they aren't 'technical experts' and they aren't meant to be 'PT gods'.....what exactly DO they do?

Hahahahahahaha you are right about PT gods. That comment made me think about this girl in the MPF when I was overseas, she was about as tall as she was wide and to squadron PT she would wear these cheerleader shorts that said JUICY on the back (when we could wear civilian clothes to PT). BLECH!

What do they do you ask? They loose your paperwork, think of ways to get out of doing work, and stand around and B.S. in the back.


loader67

07-14-2010, 05:15 PM

I remember my travel voucher for a PCS was lost. I had copies and resubmitted. Got lost again. The individual I turned the third set in to asked who it was I gave it to last time. I looked at her and said "you". She was quite perplexed with that statement.


AFCommunicator

07-14-2010, 06:05 PM

I get the low manning. I get the deployments. Heck, I can rarely close my Post Office to give my Airmen a break, or train, or prep for an inspection (training/inspection prep gets done before and after the customer service functions open/close), but FSS leadership has no problem shutting down a PURELY customer service function for training. And what do we get? Less hours to get business done, and still (in some instances), continued crappy service.

I have peeps in MFP. I have "snuck over" to do work when they were closed for training. Know what I found? A nearly empty building. Wonder what kinda training that was about?


Golther

07-14-2010, 06:08 PM

I get the low manning. I get the deployments. Heck, I can rarely close my Post Office to give my Airmen a break, or train, or prep for an inspection (training/inspection prep gets done before and after the customer service functions open/close), but FSS leadership has no problem shutting down a PURELY customer service function for training. And what do we get? Less hours to get business done, and still (in some instances), continued crappy service.

I have peeps in MFP. I have "snuck over" to do work when they were closed for training. Know what I found? A nearly empty building. Wonder what kinda training that was about?

Training on how to be lazy and not at work, when your getting paid to be there.


ChaosTony

07-14-2010, 06:18 PM

When I first got to this base I had to fill out my Travel Voucher 3 times!

The first time I was told that I must have turned in the incorrect form, because they never received it. The 2nd time I was told my voucher was flagged as "incorrect" and had to be thrown out. I know both excuses were BS because I filled out the exact same form the exact same way all 3 times.

Then, my first paycheck on station was $37. Me being a fresh Airman in a completely new place with no belongings had already spent my "reserve" of money on getting settled, so I had $37 for 2 weeks. I was told by finance that my pay was incorrect and would be "caught up" on the first of the next month. The 1st of the month rolls around, my paycheck was $0. I go back to finance with my supervisor and they told me "Oh, we're sorry. We'll advance you $500."

It took them another month to get my pay sorted out, and I received my back pay and Travel Money all at once(a whole 2 months after being at the base).

Don't get me started on the MPF. I've been there TWICE to update my vRed, and both times they said it was done(the 2nd time they gave me a copy). I go to my vMPF 2 weeks later, and it's still not listed! I called and they said "oh, it must have fallen through the cracks, I'm so sorry!"

I worked in the Flight Surgeon's Office, where we handle 1042's. It's a single piece of paper that can prevent someone from flying or even getting their flight pay. On ONE occasion we misplaced a 1042, and we had the Base Vice Commander/IG down our throats about evaluating our processes to make sure it didn't happen again.

Where is the accountability for the FSS and Comptrollers?


imported_blacksheep1208

07-14-2010, 09:33 PM

I think they would be accountable if they effected the number of sorties flown. Unfortunately there isn't a sign on base telling you how many customers were helped that day and how far ahead or behind they are of their goal for the month.


imnohero

07-14-2010, 11:32 PM

I still say the greatest incentive EVER for finance to process vouchers in a timely manner was my base implemented a policy of automatic LOR for 60 day late GTC, and Art15 90 day late. There was a SINGLE instance of a finance troop getting an LOR (instead of the guy with the late account) because they didn't get a voucher processed in time, after that, I never heard a single problem.

I loved DTS and mandatory split disbursement for the same reason. "What's that 1st sergeant, my card is 30 days overdue, well I turned it in to DTS on time, it's been in the AO queue for 28 days, what would you like me to do?"


imported_Shove_your_stupid_meeting

07-15-2010, 04:03 AM

I still say the greatest incentive EVER for finance to process vouchers in a timely manner was my base implemented a policy of automatic LOR for 60 day late GTC, and Art15 90 day late. There was a SINGLE instance of a finance troop getting an LOR (instead of the guy with the late account) because they didn't get a voucher processed in time, after that, I never heard a single problem.

I loved DTS and mandatory split disbursement for the same reason. "What's that 1st sergeant, my card is 30 days overdue, well I turned it in to DTS on time, it's been in the AO queue for 28 days, what would you like me to do?"


DTS is yet another program that doesn't seem to be living up to the hype. God help us if auditors get a clue and really dive into DTS. I wonder if claiming ignorance and throwing our hands up will save us when they uncover some of the shenanigans going on with that system?


imported_blacksheep1208

07-15-2010, 09:40 AM

DTS is yet another program that doesn't seem to be living up to the hype. God help us if auditors get a clue and really dive into DTS. I wonder if claiming ignorance and throwing our hands up will save us when they uncover some of the shenanigans going on with that system?

I have to agree with DTS being a mess. My favorite part is when you go to file your voucher and it flags something but doesn't tell you what. That's really helpful. It's like being on the Price Is Right and having to move stuff around to win a car.


garhkal

07-15-2010, 10:27 AM

I remember my travel voucher for a PCS was lost. I had copies and resubmitted. Got lost again. The individual I turned the third set in to asked who it was I gave it to last time. I looked at her and said "you". She was quite perplexed with that statement.

It's crud like that, that on ship gets other departments whom personnel rely on (such as the IT department) to do things like lock accounts, or remove folders etc...


I go to my vMPF 2 weeks later, and it's still not listed! I called and they said "oh, it must have fallen through the cracks, I'm so sorry!"

I would say to them the next time they had a trouble call in for something you do for them, "Oh sorry your request for service must have fallen through the cracks.."


BigBaze

07-16-2010, 11:38 AM

It's funny you mentioned the Airmen's Creed. While trying to inprocess at MPF I was one of 5 people waiting to be helped. There was two A1C's and a SSgt in the office helping us customers. While I was waiting a TSgt popped her head in and told one of the A1C's that they had to report to the chiefs office and recite the Airmen's Creed. Seriously you are going to pull her out of the office when there are customers trying to get business done to go say the Airmen's Creed. Couldn't that have waiting until their daily "training" period. I was just a little ticked off about that.


I am deployed now, and I wanted to put one of my airmen up for the "Sharp Airman Award" they had introduced here, until I found out what it entailed. They had to go before a board consisting of the Command Chief and other Top 3 and:

1) Recite the Airman's Creed
2) Answer questions by heart from the Airman's Manual
3) Run a PT test with said board watching

I just didn't know what to say..I didn't know if I should be humored or angry....


StephenH

07-16-2010, 12:05 PM

I am deployed now, and I wanted to put one of my airmen up for the "Sharp Airman Award" they had introduced here, until I found out what it entailed. They had to go before a board consisting of the Command Chief and other Top 3 and:

1) Recite the Airman's Creed
2) Answer questions by heart from the Airman's Manual
3) Run a PT test with said board watching

I just didn't know what to say..I didn't know if I should be humored or angry....

This sounds reasonable in a deployed location. The PT test part doesn't make a whole lot of sense though. I willing to bet that was a joke.


oliversnit

07-16-2010, 03:13 PM

Why not keep a record of the problems you run into with the personnel/finance people; document everything that occurred. Send it to the Chief of Staff of the Air Force. This is endemic to all the services unfortunately. Lazy people along with worse than lazy supervisors. Sad indeed that in the age of technology, we are still victims of lazy people. Only the generals can affect things.


garhkal

07-17-2010, 04:37 AM

Screw sending it to the Staff, send it to the IG or Jagman. Or better yet, call your congressional rep and have them call for a congressional review.


imported_blacksheep1208

07-17-2010, 06:55 AM

Screw sending it to the Staff, send it to the IG or Jagman. Or better yet, call your congressional rep and have them call for a congressional review.

I wish I had kept some sort of log with what these morons have been up to. I'd love to see them finally pay.


Golther

07-17-2010, 08:39 AM

Yesterday I actually had a finance A1C go above and beyond for me when it came to a borked voucher. I'm TDY right now and she offered to assit me by doing the paperwork for me except my signature as I am unable to sign for my paperwork at my home base. I think that one single instance was probably that most assistance I have ever received in finance out of my entire enlistment. I mean she could have just said "Well...you would have to come in because, I'm not able to process anything for you unless your present." which would be code for I'm to damn lazy to do my job while you are gone, so come in and do it yourself." Which I believe that Is what 95% of finance would say.


Magnumpi282002

08-12-2010, 03:34 AM

As an active duty personnelist for almost 12 years, and almost 3 years a reservist, there has been a change in attitudes with personnel coming in. It's a combination of things - lack of training, numerous additional duties, and a lack of initiative to pick up a reg and find the answer. You can also blame our leadership for having customers call a 1800 number as opposed to have the personalized care needed for customers to understand their records. I know we need to cut funds, cut people, etc., but servicemembers in the field are going to have to learn to obtain information on their own. It's not a good answer, but it's the real answer.


takthekak

08-12-2010, 03:49 AM

personnelists have a monopoly...who else you gonna go to and get it done? If they were business, they would have closed shop by now...


JUSTINCASE876

08-12-2010, 04:00 AM

I'm one of them. It is always easy to stand on the outside and indict an entire demographic of people for what are really isolated incidents when you look at the total picture. But, I will concede that the AF is setting its Force Support troops (personnel, services and manpower) for failure. They develop this grand concept of the FSS, they cut the officer and enlisted force big time and continue to do so, they transform our processes (cutting bodies first and developing the "new" state or "to be" processes after the cuts, and then we find out the processes weren't well thought out or just plain don't work. And, oh by the way they increase deployments at the same time.

I said all that to say this. We were told you do not do certain things any more. We are not trained or manned to do those things. So, yes, you will hear "We don't do that." more and more. As well, due to deployments some MPF/MPSs are down in manning by 30-50% at any given time; with a revolving door of deployers and returnees. I'm not saying we are special, or unique, I'm just saying.

So, before you all get on your soap boxes about the "soft" career fields and how badly they suck....understand the circumstances they exist and live under. It is very easy to criticize those folks/functions that everyone utilizes or have experienced (i.e. Services--everyone has stayed at hotels and other lodging facilities and can bitch about the current one they are in because once upon a time they stayed in one that was better). That's just too easy.

The AF has transitioned/manned itself and embraced a culture of "We are All __________"....(.fill in the blank: personnelist, finance, etc). Don't blame the other Airmen; it is how we live, are trained, are raised and manned for today's AF.

Seriously, this is your justification? FYI....there are too many AFSC's to mention that have more deployers and bigger manning issues.


frustratednco

08-19-2010, 03:36 AM

All I can say is this. I was a CE troop for five years. Now I am a flight secretary, not quite a personnelist, but close. From what I have seen (behind the scenes) most of the time the Airmen (and NCOs) are in a back room watching You-Tube joking around, whenever I come in with a question or paper work to turn in they get annoyed that I am interuppting play time. Back at my section I try to make it as easy as possible for everyone and fill out what I can, and make the calls for them...to me that's my JOB. But, I have a CC secretary telling me that I shouldn't be correcting this MFR or that RIP because the NCO or SNCO needs to learn to do it themselves. Um...to me their number one priority is their AFSC and the mission...not dotting the Is and crossing the Ts. Maybe it's the former NCO in me coming out, but it pisses me off that the AF expects the Active Duty to be an expert in their own career field and all the personnel fields as well. AND ANOTHER thing SOMEONE needs to remind some of these secretaries on their high horses that they aren't the COMMANDERS...ok my rant is done. I'll continue to do what I can for my guys


takthekak

08-19-2010, 03:43 AM

All I can say is this. I was a CE troop for five years. Now I am a flight secretary, not quite a personnelist, but close. From what I have seen (behind the scenes) most of the time the Airmen (and NCOs) are in a back room watching You-Tube joking around, whenever I come in with a question or paper work to turn in they get annoyed that I am interuppting play time. Back at my section I try to make it as easy as possible for everyone and fill out what I can, and make the calls for them...to me that's my JOB. But, I have a CC secretary telling me that I shouldn't be correcting this MFR or that RIP because the NCO or SNCO needs to learn to do it themselves. Um...to me their number one priority is their AFSC and the mission...not dotting the Is and crossing the Ts. Maybe it's the former NCO in me coming out, but it pisses me off that the AF expects the Active Duty to be an expert in their own career field and all the personnel fields as well. AND ANOTHER thing SOMEONE needs to remind some of these secretaries on their high horses that they aren't the COMMANDERS...ok my rant is done. I'll continue to do what I can for my guys

Nice rant, I wish the people would at least act like they are trying to be helpful.
Maybe since they don't want to do their job, they can come to my shop and deal with the crap I have to daily...And they wouldn't get to point to a web link, virtual program or refer them to AFPC.


BigT2002

08-19-2010, 03:39 PM

All I can say is this. I was a CE troop for five years. Now I am a flight secretary, not quite a personnelist, but close. From what I have seen (behind the scenes) most of the time the Airmen (and NCOs) are in a back room watching You-Tube joking around, whenever I come in with a question or paper work to turn in they get annoyed that I am interuppting play time. Back at my section I try to make it as easy as possible for everyone and fill out what I can, and make the calls for them...to me that's my JOB. But, I have a CC secretary telling me that I shouldn't be correcting this MFR or that RIP because the NCO or SNCO needs to learn to do it themselves. Um...to me their number one priority is their AFSC and the mission...not dotting the Is and crossing the Ts. Maybe it's the former NCO in me coming out, but it pisses me off that the AF expects the Active Duty to be an expert in their own career field and all the personnel fields as well. AND ANOTHER thing SOMEONE needs to remind some of these secretaries on their high horses that they aren't the COMMANDERS...ok my rant is done. I'll continue to do what I can for my guys

Sounds about right. The worse thing they could of done was getting rid of orderly rooms in some effort to cut costs. For those in jobs where its pretty easy to leave and run your errands, its not that big of an issue. However, for those in jobs where you either need to be relieved or have very little support structure...its next to impossible to get the trivial things done before a PCS, TDY, Separation, et al. I loved having someone I could call or email and know they would respond back. Dealing directly with the people at the MPF was hair tearing, least most personnelist know one another and they tend to help eachother out before someone else.


Magnumpi282002

08-20-2010, 12:05 PM

Hi FrustratedNCO,
If you see airmen and NCO's in a back room watching You-Tube or on their FB page, you need to push that up your chain of command and through FSS mgt. Our leadership came up with the great idea to make these website available, but I can't pay certain bills on line or order lingerie from Victoria Secret (j/k). I hear everyone and their complaints about personnelists, but it's not easy for us either. Yes, we are responsible for pushing papers all day, however we do have an impact on the career of our servicemembers. A firefighter, security forces member, and Civil Engineer, can't focus on their job if their pay and personnel records aren't right for promotions, awards, and decorations. And as deployed personnel we are responsible for the accountability of our people. So please, don't diminish our role. (You didn't say anything, but I needed to address this)
I also believe your unit secretary is right that NCO's and SNCO's need to learn how to correct items themselves. Why? Part of being a senior NCO/NCO is knowing the administrative side of the house to mentor your troops and to take care of them. If you do things for them, they will never learn. My philosophy, is I show you one time and I correct it, after that your own your own. I will assist the second time, but I will NOT do it for you. The third time, I'll give you the AFI and paragraph. It's great that you want to help them and have them focus on their AFSC, but with the way things are now, you have to know some personnel. The whole doing more with less thing! (Again thank our leadership)
However, I do agree with your comment regarding Commander Secretaries thinking they are next to God, because they work for the CC.


BOSS302

04-30-2013, 02:28 PM

After several different "technicians" who gave several different answers (many which, according to 36-2110 and the JFTR, were wrong); after a few phone calls to AFPC (should have never gotten to that point); after discovering that my PCS orders documents had been sitting in someone's E-mail inbox for three weeks and never sent for orders processing until I had called about it; after a few weeks of checking my E-mail every morning hoping for that "Server-Generated Email: Orders Available on vMPF" message...I finally have my orders.

Thank you, MPF "technicians", for making this process more painful than it had to be. I would rank this as #3 on my list of worst PCS/TDY/Finance personnelist adventures.


meatbringer

04-30-2013, 02:49 PM

Why not keep a record of the problems you run into with the personnel/finance people; document everything that occurred. Send it to the Chief of Staff of the Air Force. This is endemic to all the services unfortunately. Lazy people along with worse than lazy supervisors. Sad indeed that in the age of technology, we are still victims of lazy people. Only the generals can affect things.


Sadly, that is the only way anything gets done. When I was outprocessing Korea, the MPF lost all of my paperwork, along with many others in my shop. So what I did was type up about a page worth of bashing the MPF about their incompetence, warning others about how they will get screwed when dealing with the MPF. I then posted the document on the base "watercooler" for the entire base to see. As you can imagine, I was dragged to the First Shirt's office less than an hour later and asked why I didn't tell my supervision and use the chain of command. I told them that nothing would have been done if I had. I guess the Wing Commander was an avid "watercooler" reader and flipped when he saw the post. I received an apology email from the MPF's OIC stating how it would never happen again. And you know what? After that, they never lost my paperwork again and upon seeing my nametape when I would enter the MPF, you would have thought that I was a General trying to outprocess. Moral of the story is to call those f*ckers out!


SomeRandomGuy

04-30-2013, 03:11 PM

Sadly, that is the only way anything gets done. When I was outprocessing Korea, the MPF lost all of my paperwork, along with many others in my shop. So what I did was type up about a page worth of bashing the MPF about their incompetence, warning others about how they will get screwed when dealing with the MPF. I then posted the document on the base "watercooler" for the entire base to see. As you can imagine, I was dragged to the First Shirt's office less than an hour later and asked why I didn't tell my supervision and use the chain of command. I told them that nothing would have been done if I had. I guess the Wing Commander was an avid "watercooler" reader and flipped when he saw the post. I received an apology email from the MPF's OIC stating how it would never happen again. And you know what? After that, they never lost my paperwork again and upon seeing my nametape when I would enter the MPF, you would have thought that I was a General trying to outprocess. Moral of the story is to call those f*ckers out!

I have said this before but I will say it again. When dealing with AF customer service you have to remember to be a proactive customer. As someone who worked finance customer service I understand this issue from both sides. A lot of issues get squashed well below the level they should be. Customer service organizations process a large number of transactions. While you transaction is the most important to you it is just one of many for the technician. I would have loved to follow up on every single transaction but that is simply not feasible. You have to be your own advocate in this enviroment. The old saying "teh squeaky wheel gets the grease" is very true. Now, when I say this I do not mean camp out in the customer service lobby or call 50 times per day to check (that actually hinders your goal). The proper way to be a customer goes like this.

Step 1: Research or Inquire with the organization what is needed to accomplish your paperwork or solve your issue.
Step 2: Gather the documents needed for your request.
Step 3: MAKE COPIES OF YOUR DOCUMENTS!
Step 4: Either email your documents or walk them into customer service
Step 5: Make a note of who accepted your documents and on what date.
Step 6: Ask person recieving the documents what the normal processing time for your document is
Step 7: On the date that was provided in step 6 follow up with the person who accepted your document. Kindly, explain that they told you today was the date it should have been done and you want to make sure everything is ok. Ask for a new date when your request should be completed.
Step 8: Call on the new date if request is still not completed. At this point ask for a supervisor and explain you have been waiting. If your documents are lost you still have copies from step 3. Make sure your request is expedited as it is now overdue. Ask for a completion date.
Step 9: If your issue is not resolved by now contact your shirt/supervisor/commander provide your documentation and ask them to channel to the service orgarnizations commander.

I have always had success with this process though I will admit the most important step is 1 and 3. Make sure you are providing what is needed and make sure you have copies of everything. After that just ask for a deadline and do not bother the organization until that date. Also make sure you know who you talked to. It does a supervisor no good if you tell them you dropped off a document but you have no idea who you gave it to and you cannot even describe what the person looked like.


grimreaper

04-30-2013, 07:07 PM

The term "lost" translated into personnelist speak means:

"It is sitting on someone's desk and we are too lazy to go find it for you. Please go re-accomplish all the signatures and bring it back to us so we don't have to look for it."


garhkal

04-30-2013, 11:20 PM

Step 3: MAKE COPIES OF YOUR DOCUMENTS!
Step 4: Either email your documents or walk them into customer service
Step 5: Make a note of who accepted your documents and on what date.

One of the guys i worked with in Okinawa was a little anal in he actually had the MPF personnel who were accepting his paperwork SIGN for it in his green wheel book.


The term "lost" translated into personnelist speak means:

"It is sitting on someone's desk and we are too lazy to go find it for you. Please go re-accomplish all the signatures and bring it back to us so we don't have to look for it."

There were honestly times i felt like if i worked the customer service desk for our IT shop (which i did only a few times) and personnel came in with issues, i would lose their damn paperwork.. Most often i worked hardware side of IT..


drc100882

04-30-2013, 11:26 PM

Everytime I speak with my separations "counselor" I feel like I'm having a "Who's on First" conversation. And there's a separate checklist the FSS has in addition to the VMPF one so that's a fun game too. I asked what the "Education Letter" was on the FSS checklist and how I go about getting it. Big mistake... He said I can print the letter off of the virtual. I asked where. He proceded to give me directions to my virtual outprocessing checklist. So I asked if the Ed Center just signs the virtual checklist. He said no, I have to get the letter. I asked if I get the letter AT the Ed Center. He said no, it's on the virtual. I said, the letter is on the virtual outprocessing checklist? He said no, the Ed Center gives it to you when you go there.

I've taken to scanning all documents and sending them to him and deny him access to the originals. He keeps asking, I say no. His NCOIC, a SSgt, asked for them. I said no, because every time I ask a question I either get put on hold for 10 minutes while he finds out, or he talks in circles to me because he doesn't know what he's doing. I'd pay big money to see his training records.

:frusty


Measure Man

04-30-2013, 11:42 PM

Me: Hello, I am calling to find out the status of my command sponsorship application

MPF: Check back next week

Me: That's what you told me last week.

MPF: Well, it's not next week yet, is it!


raider8169

05-01-2013, 01:51 AM

I moved my family from NY to Cali during my mid tour while stationed in Korea. When I got to Cali and claimed my DITY move I recived a lot of help and things went very smoothly. The voucher was processed and I got paid in less than a month. When I got back to Korea and did the other travel voucher for my family that was fast to complete and I was out of finance within 20 minutes. I just got paid today and the guy said it would take about a month. While I feel bad for everyone that has issues I found everyone involved with my move great.

Maybe I got lucky or maybe it was because I went into everything and did not act like I knew exactly what was suppose to happen. I left everyone explain was I was suppose to do and made sure to be kind and thank them for helping me. Many people go into these places thinking they are going to lose their paperwork or get screwed and have an attitiude at the door. Go in with an open mind and positive attitude and I am willing to bet that people will be more likely to help you if you are just nice to them.


imported_blacksheep1208

05-01-2013, 11:15 AM

I moved my family from NY to Cali during my mid tour while stationed in Korea. When I got to Cali and claimed my DITY move I recived a lot of help and things went very smoothly. The voucher was processed and I got paid in less than a month. When I got back to Korea and did the other travel voucher for my family that was fast to complete and I was out of finance within 20 minutes. I just got paid today and the guy said it would take about a month. While I feel bad for everyone that has issues I found everyone involved with my move great.

Maybe I got lucky or maybe it was because I went into everything and did not act like I knew exactly what was suppose to happen. I left everyone explain was I was suppose to do and made sure to be kind and thank them for helping me. Many people go into these places thinking they are going to lose their paperwork or get screwed and have an attitiude at the door. Go in with an open mind and positive attitude and I am willing to bet that people will be more likely to help you if you are just nice to them.

Congratulations, you're the one out of a million. I do find it funny that this thread was resurrected. Doesn't really surprise me though. Seems like for the most part the people in outbound assignments could screw up a free lunch.


SomeRandomGuy

05-01-2013, 01:38 PM

I moved my family from NY to Cali during my mid tour while stationed in Korea. When I got to Cali and claimed my DITY move I recived a lot of help and things went very smoothly. The voucher was processed and I got paid in less than a month. When I got back to Korea and did the other travel voucher for my family that was fast to complete and I was out of finance within 20 minutes. I just got paid today and the guy said it would take about a month. While I feel bad for everyone that has issues I found everyone involved with my move great.

Maybe I got lucky or maybe it was because I went into everything and did not act like I knew exactly what was suppose to happen. I left everyone explain was I was suppose to do and made sure to be kind and thank them for helping me. Many people go into these places thinking they are going to lose their paperwork or get screwed and have an attitiude at the door. Go in with an open mind and positive attitude and I am willing to bet that people will be more likely to help you if you are just nice to them.

You are correct kindness will get you a lot farther with customer service people. One time I was working the customer service counter at finance. Since it was a slow day I grabbed some vouchers and was processing them in between customers. One of our reserve flyers came in asking about his voucher. It was not in the system yet so I asked when he turned it in. He said he dropped it off 3 days earlier. I asked if his GTC payment was late or something (why else would he be checking on a voucher he just dropped off?). He said it was not late he was just checking. I looked down and his voucher was actually in my stack to process. I said actually your voucher is right here let me process it real fast. He said thank you and then explained the real reason he wanted the money. He said he was using the per diem from that trip to pay for his daughter's braces. I actually had no problem with getting the voucher done for him right away. He probably slowed the whole process down by coming in to the counter but I didn't mind because it is nice to talk to people sometimes to break up a slow day. As long as you treat people right they will normally treat you right.


jpeters

05-01-2013, 02:17 PM

After my first PCS and seeing how much stuff gets lost or thrown to the side of someone’s desk, I make copies of everything and I make the person that I turn my paperwork in to sign a MFR and date it. So that way if something does go missing on they are sitting on my paperwork, I have their signature and date that says when I turned my stuff in. You would be surprised how much smoother the process goes when you have someone’s signature and they can’t play they “he didn’t turn it in” card.


JD2780

05-01-2013, 02:21 PM

Yes, personellists screw up. So do thousands of other people in their jobs. In my former job, I could point out dozens of things folks screwed up. Doing 1800s half assed and missing things, doing radio checks half assed and not truly checking the equipement.


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